: In the garden of
Gethsemane, Esa (Jesus) didn't really want to go through the last
stage, the crucifixion!
Maitreya: Yes, he said to God, "May you take
this cup from me? I do not want to go through with it." That was not
submission. "Thy will, not mine," is submission. He went through
with it anyway. That's why when he came back the next lifetime, he
brought the teaching of submission and surrendering. He learned a
little more about God's ways.
Of course, his mission was completely different
then. Each time the Messiah comes he has a different mission to
perform. However, people usually realize his station after he is
gone. That's why after they killed Esa, then people started loving
him and being so devotional toward him.
I've seen devotional people. We've had a couple of
them here in the
Mission, they're beautiful. Really the only one who can
completely bound God is the devotional person. When someone with
that devotion goes to God, God is completely helpless. He says,
"What do you want? I'll provide everything for you." However, if
they doubt, they fall hard. It can be a very dangerous path because
they don't have anything else but their devotion, their faith, their
belief. If you doubt on that level, you have nothing else.
If you're following the path of knowledge (Jnana
Yoga) even when you doubt, you can fall back on your own knowledge.
You can go back to the things you know, you have read, you have
studied. If you're a Karma yogi, one who likes to work for the Lord
and feels that He is doing it through you, if you fall, you still
have done some work that you can go back to and see some result of
your actions.
But the devotional person doesn't have anything else
left. However, that is the fastest way to God, the devotional way.
The moment you open yourself to that energy with devotion, you're
connected right away. You don't have to concentrate that "I'm doing
it because I'm submissive, or God is doing it through me," or in the
case of the path of gaining knowledge, "Yes, this makes sense." In
the path of devotion, you're completely, right away, in touch with
the Spirit.
Sometimes too much devotion creates problems,
because they become too dogmatic about it. Some say that religion
created more problems and killings on earth than anything else. It's
not really the religion, or God that's doing it, it's the people who
don't want to expand their consciousness. They don't want to stretch
their consciousness to cover everyone, and that creates wars and
sufferings.
For instance, "Whoever does not follow the Bible
is a heretic." When it comes down to it, that means then, "His blood
is OK, I can kill him." God never says that. This is too much
zealousness, too much zeal for false gods. Yet if they see Esa in
everyone and they love that Essence in everyone, then they don't
separate one from another. They don't say, "I am Christian, you are
Jewish, you are Moslem, you are Hindu," etc. Everyone is Esa. So
they say, "Oh, you are Esa, you are Esa and I love all of you,
because you're the Essence of God, in His image. Esa was the Essence
of God, we are one."
Then we expand ourselves to cover the whole earth
and bring that unity which is necessary for us to have. Look at the
earth right now. What's happening to it? There is so much disunity
because there are too many zealous people. Even economical zealots,
their god is economy. Everything is based on economic theories. Some
people are business zealots. They want business to take over the
earth. They think that is the only way it should be.
So, it is good to have devotion but it is not good
to be zealots and be narrow about what you believe. The Greatest
Sign shatters that narrow part of the human. You just can't
separate yourself from others. You cannot love Maitreya and
not love The Greatest Sign. And if you love The Greatest
Sign you have to love the whole universe. That is when unity
comes to humanity. Then we can all be zealots bringing the whole
universe to Pure Consciousness. That kind of zealousness is from
knowledge because you don't separate anyone from anyone else, or any
part of the universe. Anything with a universal scope is good.
Question: Well, there was a period of time of
around 500 years: Buddha was born and like 500 years later, Christ
and then 500 years later, Muhammad. And then we've had a long
stretch of no Saviors, nobody with the Light. Why has it taken so
long?
Maitreya: Actually, according to The Greatest
Sign, there are, between Muhammad and our period, two other
beings who came to earth and brought great Light. Of course, there
was a long stretch between 600 AD, when Muhammad came and 1800AD,
which was around 1,200 years when not many great revelations came.
That was the real period of ignorance. That was the
real Kali Yuga years on earth, because ignorance came to its
fullest. You could see in Europe, the religions persecuting people.
The whole truth actually was lost for 1,200 years. Now we're coming
out of it.
Question: Yes, we're right at the junction where
it changes. According to the Kali Yuga, there will be a major war,
the big world war, to begin within the next two or three years, the
early 1990's. Do you believe that?
Maitreya: Well, Armageddon is also prophesied in
the
Bible. We all are for peace. We're all for bringing the
Kingdom without bloodshed. If someone can come and do it, I'm the
first person who's going to follow.
There are a lot of people saying, there's another
Maitreya who is going to do it overnight. I say great, we would all
love to see that happen. But it is not according to the prophecies.
According to the prophecies, we have to go through a period of
purification. Although wars are terrible and the suffering they
bring to humanity is terrible, yet suffering is a kind of
purification.
It seems like humanity is more receptive to the
Truth after a great suffering. They go toward the Truth in
suffering. When they are in trouble they say, "Oh God, please help
me out and I'll be your servant from now on." When the disaster is
lifted, they forget about God.
So if everyone came today and said, "We accept that
these are all religions of One God, there's One God, there's One
Earth, we have to share it with one another and live like brothers
and sisters," then what are we going to have? Peace on earth, aren't
we? But how many people are willing to accept this right now?
Audience: Well, it's not going to happen until
after the big destruction.
Maitreya: So though that is unfortunate, it
sounds like the earth is going toward that end. Also probably people
on earth are willing to submit to such a Plan but are also very
attached to their governments, leaders, religions, traditions, etc.
The governments are like people, they have relationships with one
another based on their karmas. That creates even more karma for one
another. They cannot overcome this karma unless they really sit down
with one another, and come to the point of realizing that this is
not the way. It is not working. We are destroying ourselves. We are
destroying our resources and we're destroying our people. There
should be a better way.
We believe that we are representing an alternative
to humanity. This is the way to do it. This is how the religions of
the world are unified. This is how the
Communities of Light can create a system which can bring
peace on earth based on people, not on any political system or any
economic theory, etc. So that is what we present to them. When they
reach the point where they say, "OK, our way is not the way to do
it, now we are ready" -- then we can say, "This is the alternative."
Then they would say, "Yes." If we can create Communities of Light,
if we can have some system going on by then, then they will see,
"Yes, it is working. People are sharing with one another."
For instance, we had some people from Quebec here
two weeks ago. They were one with us. There was a community which
was one. We shared, there was joy when we were together and it was
very beautiful. There was no feeling of, "This person is from this
country, that country" or any barrier of language. We couldn't even
speak much with each other. They spoke French and we didn't know
French. Of course, we had a person who translated everything.
Most of the time we didn't even talk but we
understood one another very well. We probably understood much better
without talking because sometimes even talking brings more
confusion. You mean one thing that you express in words, and the
other person picks it up and feels something else from it. If you
feel each other then probably you can understand one another even
better.
So in a sense, unfortunately, such a suffering seems
imminent on earth.
Question: OK, well, your Communities of Light
concept, I really don't understand how that's going to work. If
you're talking about twelve people and if as you said, they're not
living in a commune type situation, that they're dotted around the
community, what is going to be any different than what we're already
doing? Like in Las Vegas, there are twelve that come to the group
and we're all dotted around the community. We're all working jobs
and going about our daily lives but we're trying to incorporate
spirituality, God, into everything we do. What is the difference
than what you're doing?
Maitreya: Well, the ideal community is one where
the people live together, close by. Actually, it consists of
12x12x12 people -- around 2,000 people, in each community. These
communities themselves have three levels of selection of leadership.
Inside the communities, every twelve people -- or ideally six
couples -- gather together and create a unit in the community. Each
couple will have one unit of living space, like a house. The end of
these houses will shape a six angular place, which will be covered
as a meeting place, or a temple, or a meditation room, or something
like that.
So this unit will not only have privacy by separate
houses but they are united behind their houses as one unit. They
have a place of meeting. They have a place of worship, or
meditation, for discussion, etc. So they create a very strong bond
with one another. At the same time, they are not in one another's
way. They have their own separate homes. So, they have privacy and
they can meditate by themselves also.
Then twelve such units create the second level of
the community, which becomes 144 adult people in the community. Then
twelve of such twelve people create a community. Whoever emerges
from this as the person selected from the community, represents that
community to other communities that also are formed.
When there are 12x12x12 people, then they can have a
community center, where they can go and meditate and also have a
place for discussing the problems of the greater community, or to
coordinate between the communities.
Also we can build the Temple that is proposed
and is in the shape of The Greatest Sign, and we can build
universities around it. These universities will not only teach the
conventional wisdom and teaching; they also will teach Spirit and
science based on Spirit which is the Metatronic Science, healing
powers and everything that makes sense and humanity can use for its
betterment.
So eventually we will have science that doesn't have
any by-products that we now have, like pollution. We're going to
create an earth, pollution-free. Right now we have a lot of science
that we can use, like electromagnetics, or fission, or sun, or all
those things that can be used for the betterment of humanity,
without having the side effects of conventional science. So it's a
great Plan.
Presently, if the people don't want to come together
and live in one place, don't have the resources, don't feel they
want to be in a community, can't form any shape of a community that
they feel very comfortable with, just to start with, they can live
separately as you are doing in Las Vegas. However, eventually the
goal is to create that kind of community we just explained.
Also, not everyone will be in these communities even
then -- the whole earth will not be in communities. There will still
be people who don't want to be in communities, they want to live out
of communities.
Audience: Well, more and more people are
interested in communities, though, and they're springing up in
different parts of the country. When I was in Ananda, I shared a
room with a lady who was a Quaker from Pennsylvania. Her daughter
and son-in-law are trying to open a community in Pennsylvania. So
what she's been doing is traveling around the country, visiting all
these different communities, to see what is working here and what
isn't working, etc. Of course, being Quakers, they are still into
chopping wood and carrying water.
Maitreya: Not in our community. Actually we are
based very much on the new technology. We emphasize computers.
Audience: Well, that's the way Ananda is. They
live a very cloistered life yet they use computers, and they fly to
Italy and they're doing all these things.
Maitreya: Actually we let machines chop our
wood, and we meditate more. Again, not every community is a
Community of Light. The community based on the Eternal Divine
Path, which unifies all the religions of the world, concentrates
on the spirit of the person, believes that it is the answer to human
suffering and the end of it, is a Community of Light.
Question: OK. Can I talk about The Greatest
Sign
with you? I have a lot of trouble with The Greatest Sign.
Even when I tried to read your explanation of it in the book,
forgive me, you get very wordy and I wish you'd just say what it is.
Now, can we just go around it, point by point? Each one represents a
great religion of the world. So the cross over here represents
Christianity (
)?
Maitreya: Right.
Question: OK. Well, what is the Star of David
down there (
))?
Maitreya: That represents the Kingdom Of Heaven
On Earth. You see, I've probably explained The Greatest Sign
around 300-400 times, and Sarah has been with me 90% of the time at
least. Every time I explain it, it comes out differently and every
time it makes sense. Every time it gives the Message but in a
different light.
Explaining The Greatest Sign is like
explaining God. You cannot explain God without really feeling you're
confusing the subject. So I'm not trying to get wordy but it's very
hard to put it into words.
Audience: This is my particular way of doing
things. I have to strip away all the unnecessary things. And I have
to get right down to what is at the bottom of it.
Maitreya: Sure, OK. Let's get to the bottom of
it.
Question: The Star of David you say, is Heaven
on Earth? But is there a religion that that is connected to?
Maitreya: Yes, it's the religion of the Children
of Israel.
Question: The Jewish religion then?
Maitreya: It is the Jewish religion, but the
Children of Israel, according to our teaching, is more expanded than
just Jewish people. That's why I said, Children of Israel ().
Question: Now the bottom. That one bothers me (
).
Maitreya: The very bottom one actually is two
signs.
Audience: Yes, it's three signs.
Maitreya: No, it's two signs.
Audience: It looks like three to me.
Maitreya: She knows The Greatest Sign
better than me [all laugh].
Audience: You've got the ying and yang and
the...
Maitreya: Actually the ying and yang is the
first sign in
The Greatest Sign, which represents the Mystical Paths. The
Mystical Paths cover any path, or religion, or belief that tries to
connect the individual to the universe. So the I-Ching is the first
sign in The Greatest Sign.
As you see, it is two sides of God, which is male
and female, or satva guna and tama guna. There's a dot in the center
which is red and that is raja guna or energy, movement. Without
energy, nothing would have moved in this universe. If there wasn't
energy I couldn't even move my hand, it would just be stuck there
forever. So there is energy. That is what most people miss in the
I-Ching because that is the same thing that makes the I-Ching move.
So this first sign relates to all mystical religions, any religion
or belief that tries to find a relationship between man and God.
Audience: Metaphysical.
Maitreya: Hinduism, Buddhism, whatever else ().
The second is the Children of Abraham ().
The third sign is Christianity ().
The fourth, on top, is the submission of Islam (
).
The fifth is the Baha'i religion (
).
Audience: I was surprised that you included that
because it has not seemed like that large or that important a
religion. A lot of the areas of the world didn't realize how
important it was.
Maitreya: Actually these last three religions do
not have as many followers as the first four religions. The reason
is the first four have been here longer, and actually these last
three compliment the first four.
Question: Now I understand that the three go
together that are going up, and the three go together that are going
down?
Maitreya: There is some relationship between
them but not necessarily. No one of them is more important than the
other. Each of them have their own place in God's Plan.
Question: OK. This is the Baha'i faith? Nine
points ()?
Maitreya: And the nine-pointed star is the
symbol for universalism. When you go through these five steps, you
become an Elect (
).
Question: OK. So where does this start then?
Maitreya: The start is the I-Ching at the very
bottom ().
Question: The rest of the sign at the very
bottom though (
)?
Maitreya: The rest of the first sign is the
Expanding Lotus and Lotustica, which when you put them altogether,
you see this bottom sign is in the image of God, which is in the
very center ().
When you go through the six steps you really become in the image of
God. Then your will and His Will are one, not before that.
Question: So you start there ()
and you go around?
Maitreya: Yes, you start from the I-Ching in the
horizontal position. Horizontal means not awakened. By spiritual
practices you awaken your spiritual forces. Then you try to create
the Communities of Light (),
to create the Kingdom Of Heaven On Earth. In order to create the
Communities of Light, not being self-centered, or sacrifice,
is necessary ().
Even after sacrificing, you might become attached to your sacrifice.
That's when submission ()
comes in. You sacrifice, yet it is really God who is doing it
through you. You are not the doer.
After being submissive, you become a Universalist (),
God is the universe. When you go through these five steps, you
become an Elect ().
Such are the people who will help the whole universe to reach Pure
Consciousness. They themselves also reached Pure Consciousness, or
are in the image of God, and they know the Will of God.
Question: Would you explain the Elect sign to me
-- why it has the rising sun and the swastika in the middle of it?
Maitreya: First of all you don't call that
swastika. It is called Lotustica.
Audience: I know, but that's what it looks like
to me.
Maitreya: Actually, swastika itself is the most
ancient sign on earth. That is the movement of the kundalini, the
rising of the spiritual knowledge in humanity. When you reach this
sixth sign (),
you really awaken your spiritual forces to the highest. That's why
you see the rising of the sun in yourself. Also you have the Kingdom
Of Heaven Within. See, this was the Kingdom Of Heaven On Earth (),
this was the Kingdom Of Heaven In Heaven (
)
become one, then the Kingdom Of Heaven On Earth will have
established itself.
Audience: That's beautiful.
Maitreya: It is beautiful! Do you understand it
now?
Audience: Much better.
Maitreya: Good. Also there is some truth that
these three [second (),
fourth ()
and sixth ()
signs] are very much related, and these three [first (),
third ()
and fifth ()
signs] are also related because these three (second, fourth and
sixth) are very much related to the Kingdom and Laws. If you
remember in the Hebrew teaching, a lot of laws came through Moses.
In Islam, Muhammad brought a lot of laws for the Moslems. Also in
this sign (),
the person who brought it was very much into laws and regulations of
how to conduct day-to-day life. These three (first, third and fifth)
are very much devotional, the Spirit moves in them. Our teaching is
a balance between them (God in the fullest).
Question: Who brought the Elect sign? All I got
was Elect.
Maitreya: The Elect sign was brought by a
gentleman in India by the name of Shrii Shrii Anandamurti-ji. I was
first initiated in that organization. That was the first time that I
started meditating. He is the person who prepared the way, and my
first encounter with spirituality in this lifetime was with him. He
was my Guru in a sense. Of course, I've never seen him, I've never
visited him. I've seen his picture only but that was enough for me.
Question: Have you heard of Baba-ji?
Maitreya: He is also called Baba. In India there
are so many Babas.
Audience: The Baba-ji I'm talking about is the
Master that they say has retained a physical body now for 300 years.
Maitreya: I see. The one of Yogananda...
Audience: Yes, he came to Yogananda, and he came
to the lady that began the teaching of the Inner Christ Movement.
They say he still appears to people, that he communes with Jesus,
and that this is all the teachings that came down from Jesus to him
and then through him to Yogananda and to different people, the
teaching of the Christ.
Maitreya: Well, I don't dwell on those things
too much because, if you have met such a person and he appeared to
you, it's your experience. It might not be my experience. I usually
have a problem with people explaining their experiences with other
people. Other people feel if one person experienced such a thing,
then I have to also experience it. And if I'm not experiencing it,
either there is something wrong with me, or that one person is
lying.
Audience: Well, you're supposed to know
everything.
Maitreya: Right, so in a sense, if that's true
and the people experienced it, great, that's wonderful for them. If
he's of the same Spirit as we are, he is our brother and we love
him. I'm sure he's helping us in some way. If such an experience is
just a creation of someone's imagination, then we shouldn't dwell on
it. That's why I usually say, Let's concentrate on creating the
Kingdom Of Heaven On Earth and if such a thing is true then we will
all know, he will join us in the celebration and the marriage
ceremony of the Kingdom.
So I have heard about him, Baba-ji, actually I have
heard about a lot of things.
Audience: You know when I was at Ananda they
showed this wonderful film about the life of Jesus. They went to
India and went to the temple where St. Esa had gone, which was Jesus
during his period between twelve and thirty when he had gone to
India.
Maitreya: Good, you know that his name is Esa.
Audience: And it was interesting to me because
they documented all this and they told the story of the man who had
gone there. He had heard about the story of St. Esa and he went to
look into the records there at the temple. They told him, "No,
you'll have to come back another time." Now he had traveled around
the world to get there and they told him, "No, you'll have to come
back another time. The second time you come, we will show you the
records." So he thanked them and he left. And on the way down the
mountain, the burrow or whatever he was riding, tripped and broke a
leg and he hurt himself, he had a broken leg too. So they had to
carry him back to the monastery. So he said, "Well, I'm here for the
second time now, so please show me the records." So they did. He
spent weeks there recuperating with his broken leg. So he wrote down
everything that they had in the records of St. Esa and the story
followed, everything. It was even in the records that they heard
when St. Esa went back to Jerusalem that he had been crucified. It
was a wonderful thing.
Maitreya: Yes, he did go to Persia, to Pakistan,
to India, to Tibet and he studied with all the people there.
Actually if you look at the teaching of Esa -- I'd rather call him
Esa because that was his real name, and also he had another name
which cannot be pronounced, of course -- his teaching sounds very
much like Krishna's teaching in the Bhagavad-Gita: "I am the
way and whoever comes to me will reach the Father-God." It's very,
very similar. When you read the New Testament
and the Bhagavad-Gita, you see so much similarity there. It's
the same Spirit.
Audience: And much of the New Testament,
he was quoting directly from the Old Testament. He knew that
by heart, he had studied it so well. Often when people asked him
questions he just answered them with Scripture that was right out of
the teachings that he had studied in the temple.
Maitreya: I don't believe that he really studied
much. He just picked up from the Spirit. He was their revealer for
many lifetimes!
Audience: Well, he quoted pretty close.
Maitreya: The doctors were saying, "This twelve
year old boy knows a lot." He knew, not of the book. I don't think
anyone can learn all these things by reading only, but the Spirit of
the Father comes through him, tells him the truth.
Question: It seems to me there's also a
connection somehow between all of these points and the chakras in
our body.
Maitreya: There is. Actually, where is the first
awakening in the spiritual path? It is in the first chakra (),
where the kundalini starts moving.
Question: That's what I thought. So, then the
second chakra?
Maitreya: The second chakra is the passion for
worldly things. So that is where the Kingdom Of Heaven On Earth ()
is.
Question: And then the third is all that
emotional...?
Maitreya: Just remember Esa and his teaching. He
is the three, the third sign ().
He tripped three times. He was tempted three times. He arose the
third day. If you look at his life, the three is so important.
That's why he is the third sign. The third sign is related to the
third chakra. It's very hard to sacrifice but eventually you learn
to sacrifice. Then you go to the heart chakra, which is the complete
unconditional Love of Christ. Usually they show him with a fleshly
heart in the middle of his chest in a lot of statues. So that is the
third sign. In the fourth sign (),
when you are going from the fourth to the fifth, which is the
ethereal level, submission comes very easily.
You know you and God are touching one another on the
fifth level. Yet, still you are not One. You know you're submissive,
He's a Spirit that works through you. So you are still concentrating
on surrendering, you want to surrender yourself to God. All the time
you see, "It's not me, You are the doer," yet you forget that He's
the doer. You do it again and you say, "I did it." You forget and
you remember, "No, I'm not the doer, You are the doer." That's
surrendering. The eventual feeling is submission. You always know
that He's the doer, you're not the doer. You are a channel for Him.
In the fifth level there is no struggle left and no doubts enter.
You know God is everything. You become a Universalist (),
belonging to no small portion of the universe but to the whole. The
sixth ()
is the sixth chakra which is the third eye, which is...
Audience: Clear vision.
Maitreya: Everything is God and I am part of It.
Yet, there is an I left between me and Him. I do this, I do that. He
does this, He does that. And it goes in and out all the time. You
just feel you and God are still One, yet not completely. You still
have your "i" a little bit.
Question: Actually the center sign then is like
the crown chakra which opens?
Maitreya: That's right. That is Pure
Consciousness ().
When the Oneness is complete and you are just a drop that falls into
the ocean, there's nothing left but Him. So again, the seven seals
and seven chakras. Still when you reach Pure Consciousness, you see
this Pure Consciousness is a little smaller ()
than this one ().
Father is always the Creator.
Question: Yes, that's what I was going to say.
There's another three chakras up here, right?
Maitreya: Actually there is a part of the
universe which is completely unconscious of itself. It's completely
in Bliss, no consciousness of creation. When some people come in
touch with that level, they call them Majzob. Majzob in Arabic and
Persian means to be absorbed into something. So they are completely
absorbed into Father. Many call them crazies. I say, they are really
crazy about God. Yet they cannot stay there very long, that is the
thing. God pushes them back to earth to help His creation. So that's
why the Bible says, "I spue you out of my mouth."
Audience: If you're lukewarm.
Maitreya: If you're lukewarm, yes.
Audience: Better you should be either hot or
cold.
Maitreya: And why are you lukewarm? Why are you
not hot or cold? Because you reached so close to God, Pure
Consciousness, that you are no longer affected by the external
world. The external world has no affect on your body, you are
neither cold nor hot. So He spues you out, back to the earth, to do
His Will. So that's why I've said many times, "Just trying to reach
Pure Consciousness by techniques and forgetting about this world,
will not get you there. You will be spued out and you'll have to
come back and work for the Kingdom."
Audience: We have to serve.
Maitreya: That's right. So then the sooner we
create the Kingdom Of Heaven On Earth, the sooner we go back home.
So let's get on with it.
Audience: Well, the Kingdom Of Heaven is within.
Maitreya: You forgot. I just explained, there
are three Kingdoms. How people like to forget about these two other
Kingdoms [all laugh]. "No, I don't want to see about this one, just
tell me about this one and this one." But there is another one. Even
Esa said, "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in
Heaven."
Audience: Yes, that was his whole gospel, the
Kingdom Of Heaven is at hand, it's within you. This is the story
about the Kingdom Of Heaven. Over and over the parables were about
the Kingdom Of Heaven and how to obtain it.
Maitreya: Of course, as I said, going through
these five steps will bring the Kingdom Of Heaven Within you. If you
don't have the Kingdom Of Heaven Within you, you can't even approach
to start the Communities of Light. You have to become the
fountain of love before you can become a center in a community. If
Kriananda wasn't advanced enough he couldn't have attracted so many
people about him.
However, all these should lead to establishment of
the Kingdom Of Heaven On Earth.
)
and when you go through the first four signs, you have the Kingdom
Of Heaven Within yourself (